Will the managers, the CEOs, the Banksters, the Bushs, the Rockefellers, the Junkers, the Clintons, the Merkels, the Scheubles, the JPMorgans, the Barclays, the Deutsche Bank, the Wall-Street listen? Or will they shut their ears – and do “business as usual” knowingly they can not continue forever. “Ignorance is DEATH not bliss.”



From this Video:

Interview with Bernard Lietaer – Economist, author and professor

Published on Jul 2, 2013

This interview is part of an article published in the online magazine Talkin’Business of the School of Business and Economics at Maastricht University.
Read more:

Multiple moneys and development: making payments in diverse economies

2nd International Conference on Complementary Currency Systems (CCS), International Institute of Social Studies (ISS) of the Erasmus University, The Hague, The Netherlands.

Title: Interview with Bernard Lietaer – Economist, author and professor
Recording date: 20th June 2013

The 2nd International Conference on Complementary Currency Systems is held from the 19th to the 23rd of June 2013 in The Hague, The Netherlands. The conference is hosted by ISS. It offers space to academics, local government officials and practitioners alike to organize panels, workshops, and other session formats that participants see fit to stimulate the exchange of ideas and experiences.

Community and complementary currency systems include initiatives like the LETS, time banks, the Argentine Redes de Trueque, the Ithaca Hours in the USA, the German Regiogeld, the Brasilian community banks with surrogate currencies, the SOL currency in France, the ‘Transition Towns’ in the UK, the RES in Belgium and the Wir in Switzerland, mobile-phone payment systems in Uganda and Kenya, and for digital remittances in El Salvador.



Other Interviews taken by

Henk van Arkel

source:  published on Sep 27, 2014.

This is a rough transcript of the above video that you should store on your offline-harddisk just in case youtube decides to delete it.

Universities and wast majority of the population and academics all have a blind spot – we have a blind spot on the domain of money.

this blind spots consists of 3 levels/layers:

  • 1st Level/Layer) is very old 5000 years old: Distinction between value systems in a patriarchal and a Matrifocal society society.
    • All patriarchal societies in history have always imposed a single currency with positives interest rates – top down – it is actually an extraction device and we still have that.
    • All societies that honor feminine values (Matrifocal societies like Egypt – or central middle ages) use several currencies – an ecosystem of currencies – some of these currencies which are identical to the patriarchal one’s are used for long-distance-trade.
      • more sophisticated: the have “demurage” – a negative interest rate – which is a penalty in keeping and storing money – so it becomes a pure medium of exchange – not at all a store of value – you would be crazy to store a value when there is a penalty in keeping.
  • 2nd Level/Layer) about 100 years old:
    • All fields of human sciences including economics but also sociology, anthropology have all completely polarized between capitalism and communism – as two poles of interpretation of how to organize a modern or industrial society.
    • That polarization has created a tension on everything that is different between them – there are millions of books about what is different between capitalism and communism – there are zero books that study
    • what they (capitalism and communism) have in common – blind spot – that is:
      • the use of a singular currency, on the national level, created by bank-debt, with interest.
      • i would add: they both failed on preventing corruption
    • differences are:
      • in communism / soviet system: the banks were owned by the government
      • in capitalism – the governments only own the banks when the banks fall apart
      • … the rest is the same.
  • 3rd Level/Layer): The Academic BlindSpot
    • try to publish an article in the quarterly Journal of American Economics on questioning the money-system – no way you get it published in this “prestigious” journal – it is locked.
    • i have no problems with economics using mathematics – but what you have is the evidence and the proof – that the mathematics they use is wrong – the mathematical model is wrong since the 19th century – we haven’t gotten out of it – we are still talking about prices being formed by supply and demand and automatically getting to an equilibrium – in fact – the same product in the same city has very different prices depending on the supermarket and it should not be there – according to that model – so reality is proofing us – that this is a very abstract way of looking at reality that does not fit the way economics really is.


When you do an open system – then the model that we are proposing which is a complex flow network (like in any natural ecosystem) in which money circulates is the valid one – and we have the proof from thousands of examples of natural ecosystems that this is not stable – unless you put diversity and inter-connectivity within a particular range.

We need to rethink – which mathematics are used and which theoretical framework is being used – which just requires rethinking the entire economic field – which is of course very exciting – for those who want to create something.

There is a huge amount of work to be done – everything needs to be redone.

Economics has never incorporated entropy.

ideological blockage

it has been attempted by Nicolas Georgescu-Roegen (Mathematician, Statistician and Economist) in the 1960s/1970s – but has never been integrated back into economics – has never been integrated into mainstream-economics.

I found it interesting that Samuelson who wrote the preface of Georgescu‘s book basically said: all economists should read this book.

Nicolas Georgescu-Roegen is the scholar of the scholars – and the economist of the economists – really hardcore – and no economist should be ignorant of the implications of entropy in the field – because it really questions everything.

Samuelson himself has never changed his book (to reflect that) – it ran through another 20 editions without changing it (in that direction in any way) – so there is an ideological blockage.


biggest problem

i see in the economic framework – besides the definition of an open system – as opposed to a closed system – which is the way it is usually taught – is what do we do what they call “extranalaties”.

In the economic field you have a theoretical framework that is perfectly rational and perfectly mathematical coherent – but it is not related to anything outside of it’s framework.

This is a structural problem – and if you deal with structural problems you need to have structural solutions – if you don’t you just gonna repeat the cycle.

What politicians, economists and (!) society (your father/mother) say:

“If you would work harder – we would not have economic problems” (governments would not be in debt and so on):



What i am proposing as a model is: You have the economy as a center – and you have around it the human-social system were economics is a subset of – there are lots of things we do that are not economic.

And the social-system itself is a subset of the biosphere – so the three fall into each other – and therefore there are no analogies in that approach – that is the model – which is called

ecologic economics

i haven’t invented it – there is a full series of people that have been working with it.

ecological_economics-book-coverbut that is not what is taught.

What is taught is an abstract ideology that has nothing to do with reality.

(Rough Transcript of (i could not hear every word and google’s subtitle algorithm did not help either)

Screenshot from the above Video: nice gesture Mr Lietaer 😀


Just for the Love of it: Who the F**** is “Courtney Love was invented?” ah never mind i just misheard something in the above video.


Video: Description is: “Bernard Lietaer – Outspoken comments on capitalism. See Lietaer‘s interview ”What about Money?” at… . The book he mentions:… by nicholas_georgescu-roegenNicolas Georgescu-Roegen. (Mathematician, Statistician and Economist)the-entropy-law-and-the-economic-process-hardcover-february-5-1971-by-nicolas-georgescu-roegen“Every few generations a great seminal book comes along that challenges economic analysis and through its findings alters men’s thinking and the course of societal change.

This is such a book, yet it is more.

It is a “poetic” philosophy, mathematics, and science of economics.

It is the quintessence of the thought that has been focused on the economic reality.

Henceforce all economists must take these conclusions into account lest their analyses and scholarship be found wanting.

“The entropy of the physical universe increases constantly because there is a continuous and irrevocable qualitative degradation of order into chaos.

The entropic nature of the economic process, which degrades natural resources and pollutes the environment, constitutes the present danger. The earth is entropically winding down naturally, and economic advance is accelerating the process. Man must learn to ration the meager resources he has so profligately squandered if he is to survive in the long run when the entropic degradation of the sun will be the crucial factor, “for suprising as it may seem, the entire stock of natural resources is not worth more than a few days of sunlight!” Georgescu-Rogen has written our generation’s classic in the field of economics.”Library Journal

–This text refers to the Paperback edition.

Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, born Nicolae Georgescu (4 February 1906 – 30 October 1994) was a Romanian Americanmathematician, statistician and economist. He is best known today for his path-breaking 1971 magnum opusThe Entropy Law and the Economic Process, where he argued that all natural resources are irreversibly degraded when put to use in economic activity. A progenitor and a paradigm founder in economics, Georgescu-Roegen’s work was seminal in establishing ecological economics as an independent academic subdiscipline in economics.

What is Entropy? Same as Diffusion? Seems similar.


“All activities in nature will drive things towards entropy = disorder, so things naturally get disordered.”

“The only way to prevent things from getting disordered – is to apply some energy to them – your body for instance is very ordered and the only way it stays ordered is that you spend a ton of energy holding it together in an ordered fashion – the day that you die – you no longer are expending any energy that hols your body together and your body will fall apart.”

Krasser SCheiß.


Abstract: If there is any takeaway from 1971’s The Entropy Law and the Economic Process, it’s this: beneath every intersection of the s
upply and demand curve, there’s a slow, but steady, process of environmental degradation. Try as you will to recycle waste materials,
the book argues—this process cannot be reversed. A formulation of economics backed with this insight was the life vision of
Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, whose work on environmental economics has recently received a new round of academic scrutiny. But
one might ask, why wasn’t Georgescu well received the first time around, during his time? This paper explores that topic.

See’s History where it acts as a central bank for central banks:…”


History – overview

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) was established in 1930 in Basel, Switzerland.

It is an international organisation, created pursuant to an international treaty (The Hague Agreements of 1930). Its shareholding members are central banks and monetary authorities.

The mission of the BIS is to serve central banks in their pursuit of monetary and financial stability, to foster international cooperation in those areas and to act as a bank for central banks.

The following pages will tell you more about the history of the BIS:

The following provide more detail about the BIS’s role and evolution:

  • Toniolo, G with the assistance of P Clement (2005): Central bank cooperation at the Bank for International Settlements, 1930-1973, Cambridge-New York: Cambridge University Press.
  • Borio, C, G Toniolo and P Clement (eds) (2008): Past and future of central bank cooperation, Cambridge-New York: Cambridge University Press.
  • Lefort, D (ed) (2009): “Bank for International Settlements (BIS), Basel, Switzerland”, in International Encyclopaedia of Laws, Alphen aan den Rijn: Kluwer Law International.
  • James, H (2012): Making the European Monetary Union: the role of the Committee of Central Bank Governors and the origins of the European Central Bank, Cambridge-London: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press.

See also this is the biz, the booklet produced for the BIS’s 75th anniversary exhibition.

Ecological Economics Editorial Board


R.B. Howarth

Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire, USA

Book Review Editor

B. Davidsdottir

University of Iceland, Reykjavik, Iceland


University of Freiburg, Freiburg, Germany

K.-H. Erb

Universität Klagenfurt, Vienna, Austria

J.I Hukkinen

University of Helsinki, Helsinki, Finland

R.P. Muradian

Universidade Federal Fluminense (UFF), Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

L.J. Pearson

University of Canberra, Bruce, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

P.E Perkins

York University, Toronto, Canada

I. Ring

Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research – UFZ, Leipzig, Germany

D. Rothman

University of Denver, Denver, Colorado, USA

Managing Editor

A.C. Aitken

Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Associate Editors

P. Antunes

Universidade Nova de Lisboa (Lisbon), Lisbon, Portugal

S. Lele

Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), Bangalore, India

D. Stern

Australian National University, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

Founding Editor

R. Costanza

Australian National University, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

Editorial Board
R. Ayres

R. Ayres

Fontainebleau, France

D.W. Bromley

Madison, Wisconsin, USA

K. Chopra

Delhi, India

M.S. Common

Glasgow, UK

R.M. Cowling

Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Z. Dajian

Shanghai, China

V.H. Dale

Oakridge, Tennessee, USA

H.E. Daly

C. Folke

Stockholm, Sweden

J.M. Gowdy

Troy, New York, USA

T..E. Graedel

T..E. Graedel

New Haven, Connecticut, USA

H. Haberl

Vienna, Austria

B. Haddad

Santa Cruz, California, USA

C.A. Hall

B.M. Hannon

R.M. Hassan

Pretoria, South Africa

N. Khanna

Binghampton, New York, USA

P. Kumar

Liverpool, UK

J. Martinez-Alier

Bellaterra Barcelona, Spain

M. Max-Neef

Santiago, Chile

P.H. May

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

K. Mayumi

Tokushima City, Japan

R.P. Muradian

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

E. Neumayer

London, UK

P. Nijkamp

Amsterdam, Netherlands

R.B. Norgaard

Berkeley, California, USA

B.G. Norton

Atlanta, Georgia, USA

J. Paavola

Leeds, England, UK

C. Perrings

Tempe, USA

S. Polasky

St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

W. Proctor

Canberra, Australia

W.E. Rees

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I. Røpke

Lyngby, Denmark

F. Schläpfer

Zurich, Switzerland

P. Söderbaum

C. Spash

Vienna, Austria

S. Stagl

Vienna, Austria

C.A. Tisdell

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

R.K. Turner

Norwich, England, UK

K. Urama

Nairobi, Kenya

J.C.J.M. van den Bergh

J.C.J.M. van den Bergh

Cerdanyola des Valles (Barcelona), Spain

A. Vatn

Ås, Norway

P. Victor

North York, Ontario, Canada

Tempe, Arizona, USA

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The VIAF® (Virtual International Authority File) combines multiple name authority files into a single OCLC-hosted name authority service. The goal of the service is to lower the cost and increase the utility of library authority files by matching and linking widely-used authority files and making that information available on the Web.

The Online Computer Library Center, Inc. (OCLC) is “a nonprofit, membership, computer library service and research organization dedicated to the public purposes of furthering access to the world’s information and reducing information costs”.[2] It was founded in 1967 as the Ohio College Library Center. OCLC and its member libraries cooperatively produce and maintain WorldCat, the largest online public access catalog (OPAC) in the world.



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Among the speakers will be:

Brett Scott – Financial Activist


My book
“An imaginative, even exuberant exploration of the daunting world of finance” Bill McKibben


Arnoud Boot is professor of Corporate Finance and Financial Markets at the University of Amsterdam and co-director of the Amsterdam Center for Law & Economics (ACLE). He also directs the Amsterdam Center for Corporate Finance (ACCF), a think tank that seeks to stimulate the dialogue between academics and practitioners.


Michael Kumhof, Bank of England

“Inequality, Leverage and Crises” (with R. Ranciere), American Economic Review, 105(3), March 2015, 1217-1245.